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Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. Is this correct for the function of the system? Also, check the feeder valve and pressure relief valves activity. (+ Calculator), 5 Best Air Purifiers For Allergies In 2023 (+ H13 Medical-Grade HEPA Filters), Is A Tankless Water Heater Worth It? Press J to jump to the feed. The 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors are used to connect the pump to your existing pipes. ($0.05 $0.22/h), How Much Does 1000 Watts Cost Per Hour? Here is a list of advantages associated with hot water circulating pumps: Now lets have a look at the disadvantages of these pumps: Needless to say, recirculation pumps are not free. When he is not busy trying not to electrocute himself, you can find him in the garden tending to his vegetables and chickens. Average 1-6 Person Home kWh Usage, Gas Vs Electric Water Heater Monthly Cost Comparison (State-By-State), Water Heating Costs For 1,2,3,4,5,6 Family Homes (State-By-State Analysis), Electric Water Heating Cost, kWh Usage Per Month (State-By-State RECS Analysis), What Is W2 Wire On Thermostat? The user manual for these devices (of which I own two) provides a pretty good plumbing diagram for proper install. Ask Your Own HVAC Question b55db6.jpeg 6a7761.jpeg ee4ed0.jpeg cc7ba2.jpeg 8ec6a3.jpeg 32aa59.jpeg Your Navien Recirculation Pump will make a humming noise like a refrigerator if you dont bleed the air out of the recirculation system. You also have to flush the heat exchanger. 2. You mentioned that in the summer months your can turn off the recirculation pump. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot sometimes. Then check to see if the plumbing lines and the heaters water lines are clogged. Can this be moved to another sink in the house that is not used as often ? Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. I obviously dont know much about this but the plumber is giving reasons that feel like he is making up dont make sense to me: 1. If you add a powerful hot water circulation pump at the heater (not under the sink), the hot water will reach the faucet much faster. I just hooked up the NR-20DU wired remote control ($80 from Fergusons) and programmed 3 on/off recirculating cycles based on family needs. There are no error codes showing. Remove the intake filter and properly wash it using a brush beneath running water. For example, you may damp it into a bathtub, pushing the water through the isolation side on hot. . Perhaps not everyone is familiar with the newer manual. If you have a Navien tankless water heater this can be done by simply pressing a . Pump the white vinegar into the cold side, up through your water heater, and out the hot side. What kind of range do you get from the remotes? Any tips on where to verify if I have a dedicated return line? Full Recirculation Pump System - Going this route adds additional piping to your system, allowing for a "hot water loop" to be created, ensuring the water doesn't end up sitting and going cold in your pipes and instead is recirculated, ready for the next time you turn on the tap. You can crack open the manual for your tankless heater and check if it comes with that option. The recirculation timer is set to operate ever 15 minutes, even though we are often not at the property. Press the reset button to reset your device. Otherwise, turn it off. That means that all the costs of the hot water circulation pump are covered by the water savings. So you'll find the same info whether you're looking for the Navien 240A manual, the Navien NPE-240S manual, Navien NPE-180A manual or similar. Of course, the most important part is the pump itself, so well start with that: These are the standard building blocks of every recirculation pump for getting hot water quickly. We can go from there with up to 3 hours of dedicated live coaching on the telephone if needed. Next, hook hoses to the valves, then open them to drain the water. Air in the line: If there has been a power outage or air has gotten into the line for another reason, the pump can make a lot of noise. However, I have envious of those who have the NPE with the hot button and wifi link. Your article ended saying All in all, its important to understand that recirculation pumps are worth the money. if your water heater has 4 connections (CW in; HW out; condensate; gas) then the recirculation occurs within the water heater - IMO don't see the benefit in this setup as the water in the HW distribution system doesn't see flow . Works great and saves the copper pipes. Now, you have to know the hows for reducing damage. It tells you about the abnormality of the external tank thermistor. This gives you a negative return on investment (ROI), so. If you have come back from a vacation, first turn on the main water valve. If you've got a tankless water heater installed that doesn't come with a built-in recirculation pump, then in such a scenario, a separate recirculation pump can do the trick for you. There are two options when it comes to tankless heaters and recirculation pumps: If you have difficulty finding out which brand is the best for a tankless water heater with a recirculation pump, you should check the newest Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units. It does save you water but it also costs you a bit of electricity. Does the thing have a 'vacation' mode? Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. Having a tankless water heater is an energy-efficient way of getting hot water. Once the display stops flashing, the temperature setting is stored. So, there is such a thing. At the same time, someone is in the kitchen doing the dishes. Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get. I have alos checked my HeatBox settings to ensure the temp is set high enough for my domestic supply (set to around 120 degrees). To select a recirculation mode, you must set the DIP switches on the front panel, and set the position of the 2-way valve inside the water heater. Press the Power button on the front panel to turn off the water heater. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. Manage Settings It usually occurs due to an open or shorted sensor. All you have to do is browse through our guides, answers and personal experience documentations to find out what you should (or shouldn't) do when going off the grid. Find products from Grundfos related to this subject. If we dont use it, we waste a lot of water. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after you've turned it off for your safety. (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? It also increases the gas bill. The pump will cost you $200 to install, $5.50-$32 to operate, will waste $160-$400 per year and will save you $4-$50 on your water bill. The water heater will not provide hot water instantly. Thats 2,920 gallons of water per year wasted. It is brand new in the original Navien factory packaging and is guaranteed to fit and function properly. Check the thermistors condition along with pump wiring connectors. Therefore, the only task you can attempt on this list is the gasket replacement for the leaking water connection. . For moving the pump to another sink, you would have to talk with a plumber. The number of bathrooms, tubs, dishwashers, and washers. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Press the Power button on the front panel to turn on the water heater. If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. Nobody really likes waiting for the hot water to start flowing under the shower or doing the dishes, for example. Hi Christopher, not really. The water heater is set to 120 F (49 C) by default. Pour two gallons of white vinegar into a 5gallons bucket. Normally uncontrolled pumps are used as the flow variation is relatively small. Just like everything with these three characteristics, it is time-consuming and challenging. Turning off the water recirculating pump isnt a big deal. Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valves direction. I connected the Hot Button control board to the main PCB per the instructions. Is there the same solution for NR240A? What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification? The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? To calculate the size of the heater, you will need to add up the amount of water required at a particular time. NEC 310.16 Table: Copper And Aluminum Wire Ampacity Chart, NEC 310.12 Table: Wire Sizes For 100-400 Amp Services (83% Rule), kWh To Therms Calculator + Conversion Chart (1 kWh = 0.03412 Therms), MMBTU To Therms Calculator + Chart (1 MMBTU = 10 Therms), Therms To MMBTU Calculator + Chart (1 Therm = 1/10 MMBTU), AWG To Circular Mils Chart (For 4/0 AWG To 20 AWG). Next, clean the dirt-trap. Start by removing it from the heater so you can clean it properly. Second, you can use a flex connector to isolate the pump. The Navien is smart enough to stop recirculation when it recognises hot water has made the entire loop. Unscrew the plug cover with a suitable screwdriver to remove it. The plumber said that he tied in both in the master bathroom and the kitchen but Ill crawl under the house to validate this. If you have any questions about these pumps, how they work, or some calculations, you can give us the specifics in the comments below and well try to help you out. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. It is important to note that recirculation pumps dont work continuously; they are used only when we open and close the faucet. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Also, check if the electrical cord is grounded correctly or not. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after youve turned it off for your safety. That install is exactly as specified in the newer manuals. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Grundfos small circulators are perfect as hot water recirculation pumps for commercial and domestic hot water applications. Also, did you wire the PB from the Hot Button kit or only use the remote? Follow the steps below to clean your Navien water heater; Note: If you are unsure of your ability to handle this task, hire a professional to clean the heater. First, open and close the pressure relief valve, which is located near the units outlet. In fact, with a tankless water heater, you face double trouble (thats why youre not getting hot water fast): Because we need to wait longer for hot water in the case of tankless water heaters vs. traditional water heaters, it makes sense to minimize that time in tankless heaters even more. The bigger the house, the longer these water pipes usually are, and the longest it takes to get hot water. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. A hot water recirculating pump will save you money, especially if you have a larger family. This unit doesnt have dip switches as far as I undersrand. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot, Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, Easy DIY Media Cabinet Build with Basic Tools, From Cast-Iron to Stainless-Steel: How to Replace Your Kitchen Sink, While theres no water in the pump, do not turn on the recirculating pump. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. However, that shouldnt happen if you have turned the pump off. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! If water comes out from the pressure relief pipe, this indicates that the issue is not with the unit but with the house's plumbing. Navien NPE-240 A Recirculation Linewww.amazon.com/shop/miheatingguyMilwaukee 2131-20 M18 ROCKET Dual Power Tower Lighthttps://amzn.to/3pe2hYHMilwaukee M12 Surge Hydraulic Driver Kit #2551-22https://amzn.to/3n5offbMakita E-01563 Impact XPS 3 Pc. If we take that the average price of water is $0.18/gallon (according to Statistas 2019 study), heres how much you can save on water with a recirculation pump: Water Savings = 2,920 gallons/year * $0.18/gallon = $525.60/year. Does It Save Money? Like with most things, a lot of noise coming from your hot water recirculation pump isn't a good sign. 1. I have 5 connections including the recirculation in. You have to inspect the sensors connectors to confirm they are not wet and fixed correctly. What parts does a home water recirculation pump include, and where to install it. Here are some simple instructions on how to turn on your Navien tankless water heater. Its clearly not always running as I can see it says standby on the display most of the time. It can occur due to an open or short sensor. Turn off the device for half an hour and confirm everything is working correctly. Make sure the exhaust pipe is not obstructed. Power Waste For example, if you have a person showering and another individual shaving. "The recirculating pump costs about the same as operating a 25-watt light bulb," says Umberto Griccino, a commercial plumber and HouseGrail consultant. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. Purchase and install a rocker switch or "doorbell" style buttons to activate the NRCR "on-demand" mode to prime the pump for use only when you want it. Here are the leading causes of strange noises coming from your heater; Hire a professional or installer to repair your heater to avoid damaging the heater and voiding your warranty. Otherwise, this will cause the shut-off valve to get damaged. Thanks. Lets start by looking at how these pumps actually work: If it takes forever for the hot water to start running, it usually means that there is a long pipe between a boiler (or a hot water heater or tankless water heater) and the faucet. Make sure that the drain hose will empty the scaling solution into the bucket. If the external recirc is set up without this it will just run, defeating the purpose of hot water on demand. House generators are quite expensive. Turns out that it was the temperature of the return water was high enough to stop the recirculation. Navien Recirculation Pump Noise [4 Easy Solutions], 02. If any of them are loose or disconnected, your circulator pump won't work. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. I recently had a 240A2 installed. Yes!!! Does anyone know the logic behind how Navien controls their internal recirculation pump when it is circulating with an external loop? A water recirculating pump is also similar to this. What about adding the NaviLink WiFi board and controlling it from your phone anywhere? That installation is incorrect. Obviously, everybody loves immediate hot water from their faucets but this luxury can be quite expensive. The E760 informs you that its time to flush your heater. This may temporarily help to remedy the issue. The error code E736 informs about the issue in cascade communication, and error code E740 indicates that the outdoor temperature sensor is not working correctly. It has a timer that turns on the pump at regular intervals, mostly during peak usage times. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Navien tankless water heater recirculation March 31, 2016 At the push of a button, Navien 's HotButton accessory activates the internal recirculation pump and gas-fired burner to heat up the water in the supply lines. The disadvantages of recirculating pumps include waiting for cold waters (its a less-known disadvantage), having to install additional wiring, and so on. Ensure that all hot water faucets are closed, and ensure that the internal circulator and any external circulating pumps are off. There is some issue with the front panel key. It's unfortunate he's not around to explain all this to you. Both options use less energy than a continuously-running system. You need to run white vinegar through the system, to descale the water heater. This serves two functions: You save water. (Per Hour, Month, Year), How Much Does A Tankless Water Heater Cost? Navien ComfortFlow is the first and only system that incorporates a built-in insulated buffer tank and recirculation pump. Those are quite significant savings. rev2023.3.3.43278. 2. Without the need for extra piping, this type of hot water circulation pump system also comes at a much lower cost. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. The temperature sensor, on the other hand, makes sure you dont needlessly use too much energy to heat the water. Consider yourself lucky if this installation hasn't damaged your circulating pump inside the unit. I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. When you are installing water system stuff, a lot of things can cause low pressure. Therefore most homeowners try to cut down costs wherever possible, bypassing the recommended installation procedure. Tankless Water Heater Breaker Size Calculator: What Size Breaker? This happens when you have a huge heater and lower gas output. The process to take apart the fitting which holds the flow sensor to "blow" it out clean is arduous, requiring drainage of the system etc., and has not solved the problem. Going off the grid sounds noble, satisfying and eco-friendly. So, hire a professional to deal with the issue. Should I keep my 5-year-old electric tank heater as a storage unit if I am about to install a new gas tankless heater? Ensure the main gas supply valve is open. Turn off the device for 30 minutes and then restart it. Make sure to follow the instructions before and after you turn off the pump. The upfront cost is a major deterrent when deciding if it makes sense to install a circulation pump or not. Make sure the electrical cord is grounded. Hello Frank, one of the disadvantages of recirculating pumps is that you have to wait for cold water a bit. Is there a proper earth ground point in this switch box? This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. Thanks! Hi: I kind of feel like he is trying to get away with something that wasnt installed properly but hopefully I am wrong. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. There are special tankless water heater recirculation pumps for Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units; we will cover them all. Some brands/models dont include it. However, the unit comes equipped with a standard 120V appliance cord and operates between 200 and 300 watts. It is an indication that your warm water outlet thermistor has some problems. Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? Hello Lucy, in most cases, you have that option. One option is to put a relay/contactor between the Navien and the internal pump, so that that pump can only get power when the house is occupied. I may be able to correct this if I solve the mystery on where the dedicated return line might be. Now, we have to check if these costs are balanced out by the water savings. Neither reason is likely to be correct but we would need a much more in depth knowledge of the hot water distribution system and the circulation line in particular. It may not display this or other websites correctly. It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. Do we keep the flames on after cooking? Only 19 left in stock - order soon. If you fail to stop the noise after trying all the steps I mentioned, I bet there is a complex problem with the unit. Now, when installed, the recirculating pump makes it seem that the hot water starts flowing right away like magic. Use your pump when you want to use it. The pump saves this cold water and recirculates it in the hot water. You can turn off the recirculating pump in various ways. The air will need to be bled out of the system. Inspect the water feeder valve, water pressure, and water pressure relief valve. This item: Navien 30010780B Circulation Pump. The recirculation pump is fixed on the water heater. Here are some of the leading causes of cold water production; Which means there isnt enough time for the water to heat up. Does anybody have any thoughts of what I should get checked out? I have the newest version pcb since I just bought the tankless. Contents show This propels the water to your faucet or shower much quicker. I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. It should come out of the hot water port. Then descale a flush the heater following the steps listed below. Depending on the size of the pump and installation difficulty, the average cost of a hot water recirculation pump costs anywhere from $200 to $800 (installed).